{"content":{"sharePage":{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"54053796","dateCreated":"1336759665","smartDate":"May 11, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"mclaur29","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/mclaur29","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/civilwar2012.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/54053796"},"dateDigested":1532390129,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Episodes 5-9","description":"As the videos got closer and closer to the end i found that Burns started to lean towards presenting the war in a Holmes type perspective. When he started showing the video from the parade and the pictures of the both sides shaking hands, that is when he started leaning towards the Holmes perspective. he also used a quote in episode 8 from Holmes saying that the northern soldiers never hated the confederate soldiers, he said that they had respect for them.","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"54080614","body":"I agree with mclaur29 about the bias towards the Holmes perspective, with exception of Chapter 7: "The Promised Land," which deals with the slavery once again. But then again, what is their to talk about in the last half of the war? There are just to many battles and such to talk about the other aspects.","dateCreated":"1336876972","smartDate":"May 12, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"freunn10","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/freunn10","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1329864569\/freunn10-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"54091286","body":"I would also agree, it is harder to talk about the political reasons surrounding war while keeping a Holmes persepective, which is largely what he did in the first episodes, so it was more bias and less about the actual fighting. The last five episodes discussed the fighintg and not reallty why they were fighting them. Also Ken Burns discusses the end of the Civil War as a happy ocassion for the North and the South, not really focusing on the outcome of the war and what it means for the South.","dateCreated":"1336929677","smartDate":"May 13, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"powerk19","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/powerk19","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1332202074\/powerk19-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"54129988","body":"I think that towards the end of this series, even Burns started to stop talking about the memory of the war, and more talking about facts of what happened. The Holmes perspective is also evident more towards the end of the series.","dateCreated":"1337016930","smartDate":"May 14, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"16ButtonsOfJustice","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/16ButtonsOfJustice","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1328812296\/16ButtonsOfJustice-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"54140428","body":"I also agree with what mclaur29 had to say. The reason that Burns started leaning towards the Holmes perspective is because that was the metality of the soldiers at the end of the civil war. Many of them did not enjoy remembering the traumatic events of battle; however, they enjoyed remembering the adventure that they had traveling to different places and meeting new people.","dateCreated":"1337033175","smartDate":"May 14, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"nelsoc25","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/nelsoc25","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"54144846","body":"I agree. Especially in the last episode which shoed reunions and peace between both sides. Ken Burns did this because it leaves us where the USA is now. We generaly look at the war with a Holmes perspective.","dateCreated":"1337043966","smartDate":"May 14, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"Fighting69thInfantry","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Fighting69thInfantry","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1328812722\/Fighting69thInfantry-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"54145444","body":"I would have to say that the Holme's point of view was not all that bad. Although he pulls us towards the end of the war with peace trying to be made, that also gives us a feel of what the times were like during the reconstruction. the North and South were trying to make peace. Therefore, the hatred had to be forgotten.","dateCreated":"1337045033","smartDate":"May 14, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"meyerm07","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/meyerm07","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1328812219\/meyerm07-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"54146314","body":"I also agree with this statement because the reuinions of the soldiers really shows how reconstruction was actually possible. Without this idea that Holmes gave us none of it would have been possible.","dateCreated":"1337046714","smartDate":"May 14, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"Durst27","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Durst27","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"54150874","body":"While many people comment on how Burns presents the second half of the documentary in a Holmes' style perspective, it would be hard to document the civil war without focusing on the battles. Burns, however, also included the voice of freed slaves in his later episodes. This tells me that he did not forget about the original cause of the war.","dateCreated":"1337058422","smartDate":"May 14, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"pucka27","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/pucka27","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1328812351\/pucka27-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"54151644","body":"I also agree with the notion that Burns ends the series with Holmes' point of view. I think he does this because it provides a more general overview, which is a good way to end a series, rather than to focus only on small details. This general overview is a much more open-ended way to conclude the series.","dateCreated":"1337062593","smartDate":"May 14, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"rebelyell17","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/rebelyell17","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"54180384","body":"These episodes mainly focused on the Holmes school of memory and the Lost Cause memory. As the focus shifted from war to reconstruction, so did the school of memory.","dateCreated":"1337117466","smartDate":"May 15, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"lawtos05","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/lawtos05","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1328811951\/lawtos05-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"54183774","body":"I agree with Sean, because as the episodes began to get closer to the end, the type of memory started to shift toward the Lost Cause Memory. Burns himself started to just say facts about the battles, indicating the soldiers dissatisfaction of looking back on the gruesomeness.","dateCreated":"1337124014","smartDate":"May 15, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"hippm29","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/hippm29","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}}],"more":0}]},{"id":"53974984","dateCreated":"1336614638","smartDate":"May 9, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"muhs32","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/muhs32","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/civilwar2012.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/53974984"},"dateDigested":1532390130,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"How does ken burns remember the civil war?","description":"Sense nobody has done anything on this page yet an I need to get this down I will start a comment. How does ken burns remember the civil war? I would say he looks at it more from a militaristic stance with sprinkles from the 2 other narrators. The other 2 narrators are who give us the lost cause sense and the goal of saving the slaves. My question for you guys is are there other places where these memories come up?","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"53975210","body":"By the way this was posted by Mark Maurer","dateCreated":"1336615025","smartDate":"May 9, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"muhs32","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/muhs32","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"54040108","body":" Matt Donohue comment- I feel that Burns does not balance slavery with the battles and soldiers, he gives slavery notice at parts, but the majority of the film is still devoted to battles and soldiers.","dateCreated":"1336744890","smartDate":"May 11, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"donohm29","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/donohm29","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1328812880\/donohm29-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"54147924","body":"Pat Bassi comment: I agree with both you guys, the majority is on militaristic aspects of the war with slavery and whatnot on the side, but i also think that that is not necessarily a bad thing either.","dateCreated":"1337050330","smartDate":"May 14, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"starsandbars","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/starsandbars","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1331506979\/starsandbars-lg.jpg"}}],"more":0}]},{"id":"51626548","dateCreated":"1331594121","smartDate":"Mar 12, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"Roll.Tide.3","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Roll.Tide.3","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1328811635\/Roll.Tide.3-lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/civilwar2012.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/51626548"},"dateDigested":1532390131,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Slavery Stats","description":"I think the stats that Anthony presents in his first post are utterly daunting. It is amazing to think that at one point 7\/11 people in America were owned as property by someone else and that only 4% of them lived past the age of 60.","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"51629660","body":"Matt Donohue comment- I feel Athony did a great job putting a focus on the slavery and its connection to Douglass's school of thought. We once again see how much slavery was a part of the south but doesnt have the extreme previlance in the causes of war list.","dateCreated":"1331598475","smartDate":"Mar 12, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"donohm29","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/donohm29","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1328812880\/donohm29-lg.jpg"}}],"more":0}]},{"id":"51554242","dateCreated":"1331421650","smartDate":"Mar 10, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"freunn10","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/freunn10","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1329864569\/freunn10-lg.jpg"},"monitored":false,"locked":false,"links":{"self":"https:\/\/civilwar2012.wikispaces.com\/share\/view\/51554242"},"dateDigested":1532390131,"startDate":null,"sharedType":"discussion","title":"Re: No One Yet","description":"Since there isn't a post out already to comment on, I'll just give my own opinion.
\nThroughout the entire span of the episodes so far (1-4), I believe Ken Burns is placing more of an emphasis on Holmes than Douglas. This is mostly due to this media being a historical documentary: you would have to go more into the fighting since that was the overpowering factor of the war.","replyPages":[{"page":0,"digests":[{"id":"51585592","body":"I would like to emphasize on Klug's point, because it does make the series more interesting when you have the actual thoughts and feelings from the soldiers that were actually part of the conflict, instead of the political schematic where the ideas toward the war could be different. Its very hard to create a documentary, because their is no such thing as a unbiased historian. So Burns does a great job collecting diary pages and letters from soldiers to create a balanced series.","dateCreated":"1331518320","smartDate":"Mar 11, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"hippm29","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/hippm29","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"51586042","body":"The documentary definatley poses a Holmes type view of the war overall. However, the numerous qotes by people of the time of the war (be it soldiers, generals, abolitionists or citizens) definatley offer a look at all three of the views depending on the person and where they stood.","dateCreated":"1331518838","smartDate":"Mar 11, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"Fighting69thInfantry","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Fighting69thInfantry","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1328812722\/Fighting69thInfantry-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"51586712","body":"I would have to agree with Rob due to the fact that the documentary does have a large amount of first hand accounts. When the narrator is talking though, I do feel that he is taking full advantage of Holmes point of view.","dateCreated":"1331520012","smartDate":"Mar 11, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"rebelyell17","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/rebelyell17","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"51602274","body":"I agree with Connor. The first four episodes definitely use a Holmes school of memory, because it tends to focus on the restoration of the Union.","dateCreated":"1331565089","smartDate":"Mar 12, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"lawtos05","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/lawtos05","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1328811951\/lawtos05-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"51614680","body":"I don't think any one school of memory was used more often than the other. The quotes from each of the three schools give a balanced approach to the war","dateCreated":"1331577282","smartDate":"Mar 12, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"smeted31","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/smeted31","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1328812869\/smeted31-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"51618822","body":"I definitely agree with the people who said that there was more emphasis on the Holmes school of memory. This is clearly seen.","dateCreated":"1331582768","smartDate":"Mar 12, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"16ButtonsOfJustice","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/16ButtonsOfJustice","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1328812296\/16ButtonsOfJustice-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"51625312","body":"i thought Ken Burns was kind of one sided when it came to political causes of the War (he almost always sided with the North), but here is a website i liked that goes more into depth on some of the political causes and looks at it from both perspectives (North and South)
\nhttp:\/\/www.shmoop.com\/causes-of-civil-war\/politics.html<\/a>","dateCreated":"1331592440","smartDate":"Mar 12, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"powerk19","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/powerk19","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1332202074\/powerk19-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"51632908","body":"The Douglass model is much more apparent through the course of the episodes thus far. Many of the videos have focused on the factual side of the brutality of the war, and less on the romantic\/honorable side.","dateCreated":"1331602843","smartDate":"Mar 12, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"luekej23","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/luekej23","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1328812692\/luekej23-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"51633508","body":"Throughout the first 4 episodes of this documentary, we have learned about the Civil War through the Holmes point of view. This is because it mainly covered battles and facts about the war, more than the issue of slavery which Douglass was so adamant about.","dateCreated":"1331603762","smartDate":"Mar 12, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"white_lightning1860","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/white_lightning1860","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1328840992\/white_lightning1860-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"51705600","body":"Yea i would agree with white_lightning1860 because it deals mainly with the battles and stuff, so definetly a "Holmes" perspective. Btw i love your username","dateCreated":"1331740888","smartDate":"Mar 14, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"starsandbars","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/starsandbars","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1331506979\/starsandbars-lg.jpg"}},{"id":"54080752","body":"Towards the end of the war, and specifically after the Confederates surrender, there is a lot of focus put on civil war memory. For example, we talked about how the soldiers from the north and south immediately changed from enemies to friends after the war. It is remarkable to think that a human can go from all out hatred to kindhearted friend so quickly. It is also a shame that the emotions brought out in these men will never be felt on the same level again. This notion is exactly what Frederick Douglass was worried about when the war was over. He tried as hard as he could to keep the memory of the war alive, and pass this on to the following generations. Hopefully, our nation can become better at maintaining the passion and memories from our history.","dateCreated":"1336877765","smartDate":"May 12, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"firerc29","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/firerc29","imageUrl":"https:\/\/ssl.wikicdn.com\/i\/user_none_lg.jpg"}},{"id":"54106482","body":"I agree with Charlie we were talking about this in class the other day especially with the attrocities that happened in the end of the war with Cold Harbor and the Bloody Angle it is astonishing that the war could ever end. At the end of the War the Union soldiers were driven by pure hatred and anger is all that ever drove the rebels so when the war ended it makes sense events like Hamburg (discussed early in Class) could happen because the hate was still there.","dateCreated":"1336966838","smartDate":"May 13, 2012","userCreated":{"username":"Roll.Tide.3","url":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/view\/Roll.Tide.3","imageUrl":"https:\/\/www.wikispaces.com\/user\/pic\/1328811635\/Roll.Tide.3-lg.jpg"}}],"more":10}]}],"more":false},"comments":[]},"http":{"code":200,"status":"OK"},"redirectUrl":null,"javascript":null,"notices":{"warning":[],"error":[],"info":[],"success":[]}}